DIY Powerchair??

[jeshyr]

OK, who wants to help me build a new powerchair that actually suits me?

The sort of thing discussed on the ultimate powerchair, only customised for a Ricky not the guy who wrote that particular web page ... if you're interested there's a ton to read through on his website [see reading list], and it's not particularly laid out in a useful order so you sorta have to read it all and then cook the information around in your brain (I'll add the links to the end of this post). But the upshot of it is he turned this ugly green Quickie F55 powerchair:



Into this:



Major changes:

• Entire seat is mounted further back on the chassis, so the center of gravity's just forward of the back wheels. This makes it more manouverable and easier to jump up kerbs and things. Also more likely to tip you on your ass if you aren't paying attention, but that's the standard wheelchair tradeoff. It also incidentally makes the whole chair shorter from front to back.


• Standard swing-away footrest deal replaced with a compact footplate that makes the chair shorter still.


• Joystick controller is reprogrammed to give more power/control to the user, which again (tradeoffs) means it's a bit less safe in some senses but much nicer to use.


• Redesigned and replaced armrest mounts to make them more usable and also end up with a chair several inches narrower.


• Weirdly sized wheelchair wheels/tyres (both front and back) replaced with standard sized wheels and tubeless anti-puncture tyres.


• Everything's been powder coated or converted to steel so it won't corrode or break down.

There's various other things too, replaced anti-tip wheels, different batteries and electronics, etc. There's honestly very little of the original chair left! My changes would be somewhat different, and I'd have to start with a different base because my chair's tilt-in-space, but the basic theory is pretty much the same.

Would make a great project - anybody interested?

Cheers,
r

PS
Reading List:

• The Mk2 Powerchair Build description is 6 pages long, very detailed.


• The Off-road everyday powerchair (aka Mk3) build is another 3 pages but doesn't make much sense unless you've read the Mk2 stuff first.


• Final built chair specs


• There's also various other powerchair related pages which are referred to or assumed knowledge.


• .... lastly the message booard may or may not have relevant stuff.

Comments

[cesy]

You have a broken link.

[jeshyr]

Oops! thank you, fixed it.

[feyandstrange]

Without having read all the complicated stuff, I'm sort of wondering why he didn't just start with a better chair. With the exception of rehab-style seat vs. captain's, and slightly larger/sturdier front wheels, I don't see that it really has many advantages over my Pronto M91:
http://www.1800wheelchair.com/product/1965/invacare-pronto-m91-power-wheelchair

And seriously, standard rehab back? There's a reason that's the first thing MOST people customize. My captain's chair has better support than those crappy canvas slings, and I have to put a cushion in it anyway most of the time.

In my town, there's no way I'd go without anti-tip wheels on the back; too many steep hills. (My old chair lacked 'em. Ask me how embarrassing it is to tip over backwards and have a ton of people try to rescue you while trying not to laugh in that "oh god, not funny" way. And those feeble things he's got would NOT save me on a 15% grade, especially with a bag of groceries on the back.

Black tires mark up floors badly; there's a reason every chair comes standard with gray ones. I'm not getting marks all over my hardwood. I notice mister smarty wheels there saying "But these wheels are available in not black so they should use them!" but he totally ignores that those wheels are NOT available in NON MARKING versions. There's a good reason why we don't use outdoor lawnmower tires indoors if we give a damn about the floors at all - or the floors of anyone we visit.

I see this guy has snow to contend with, which is an issue I will never need to give a damn about. If I did, honestly, I'd get an indoor and an outdoor chair. I know plenty of folks in rural areas who just use a tractor-like thing to get around outdoors. But I wouldn't want mud and slush and crap all over my floor or carpets.

And I see he's failed to solve the "controller not waterproof" problem.

I wasn't aware that standard chairs even still came with tires that weren't run-flats. That's like saying "I customized my car so it takes unleaded gas!"

My wheelchair store guy happily cranked up the speed/torque on my controller to near-max and the responsiveness to high so I could get up the hills near my house and park like a pro. You can buy the reprogrammers yourself, but I prefer to have a pro do it. Manufacturer standard assumes that some of us are, hello, crippled and might need the extra pause time and gentler controls. In fact, I wish I could adjust that on the fly sometimes, as when I am tired after a long day I sometimes have trouble with my super-responsive chair controls, and have to turn down the speed lest I clock something while parking.

Sorry, not impressed with this guy's work at all. Seen way better on WheelchairJunkie. This chair may fit HIS needs but it's not better for ME than my existing chair at all. Bragging that his mods are better than off-the-shelf NO MATTER WHAT is kind of lame.

I don't have the hand strength or accuracy to really mess about with customizing stuff myself. I admit I need a paint job and a new seatcover, but that's all cosmetic stuff. Now if this guy had a waterproof controller solution or a drink holder that didn't suck or something I REALLY want or need, I might care.

[jeshyr]

He certainly is pretty arrogant and rude on the website, which doesn't help his case, and I agree about the "this is better for everybody" being bollocks. I sorta ignored it I guess, sorry it pissed you off.

I've only tipped myself over backwards twice I think, and both times it was related to wrongly built curb cuts and me not taking enough trouble. I haven't done it, or even come very close, since I got my chair back this year. I'd quite like to have shorter anti-tips because they're annoying and get caught on stuff.

Also, this guy's a paraplegic so I guess he doesn't need the extra support of a captain's chair. I need the support but I hate the style - I'd much prefer the rehab back if I could get away with less support. I feel dwarfed by the captain style chair design :( I must check if there's anything at all not like taht but still offering a headrest, because if there is I'd like to try it out!

I don't have run-flats or anti-puncture stuff on my chair's wheels - my funding body doesn't fund it and I could screw up the maintenance contract and get in a lot of trouble if I mess around with their chair so I won't.

I will check out mods on WheelchairJunkie's boards though, I hadn't thought of that. More ideas is always good!

The Invacare looks like quite a nice chair, I'll poke around more on that website. I was looking at the Aussie sites and because we don't have anything even vaguely like a "wheelchair supermarket" every chair seems to have a different website, most of which have minimal-if-any actual information. The specs differ some in Australian models due to our standards and laws and stuff, but it's a good first stop for poking around.

I can't quite tell if you actually were asking or if it was a rhetorical question about the differences between the Invacare Pronto M91 and that rebuild. Skip the rest if you weren't, but in case you were (or for anybody else):
- Significantly lower floor-to-seat height (16" vs 21-23"). I have to add a few inches for tilt-in-space so a lower FTS would be a huge bonus - the chair I have usually sticks my knees about table height which is really anti-social.
- Better battery life and quick recharge option.
- I can't tell exactly from the specs, but I suspect shorter and narrower by some inches - the modded chair only gives specs for actual use cases and wheelchair spec sheets usually have specs for weird stuff like "width minus joystick" and "length minus anti-tips" and other really un-useful metrics. The actual given length ("less than 40 in"/"40-42 in") and width ("25.25 in total"/"26 without joystick") are fairly similar on paper though.
- An extra inch of ground clearance, I think.

Anyway, thanks for the reply.

[feyandstrange]

It's partly that he's rude, and partly that he's outright wrong about stuff like the tires.

Have you looked at rehab chair with hard back support mods? I hear good things about the Jay brand.
http://www.1800wheelchair.com/asp/view-category-products.asp?category_id=623
I don't qualify for rehab seat under Medicare rules, which is too bad since I'd love tilt options for when I need more blood in the brain! but my old donated chair had a non-adjustable one. Neither one is great for back support without added mods, it seems.

I like 1800 wheelchair as a reference, between them and spinlife.com I can usually find most everything I need to know about US wheelchairs without having to wade through those manufacturer manuals' sites. Sadly I don't know of an AUS similar source.

I guess I feel like a difference of less than two inches isn't really worth getting out the welders for, at least not when my needs can be met by an off-the-rack chair pretty well. A little shorter might be nice, but frankly if I'm carrying shopping or a bag on the back, that's the "extra" space over the antitip wheels. I don't think they've ever caused me any trouble. My chair has a fantastic turning radius too. I've driven longer chairs with less spin and they were a bit annoying.

I don't trust his battery specs, frankly, and I've heard that fast recharge makes the batteries last a lot less time. My existing chair has standard batteries, and I don't think I've ever had a problem running them out - I get tired long before the chair does usually, even on days where I'm driving across half of San Francisco up and down lots of hills. Even carrying groceries!

Seat height can be a pain. I generally feel that it's a trade-off; I can fit under tables or I can be even shorter when dealing with standing people. I fit under US standard accessible tables in my current chair pretty well.

The site specs don't actually reflect my top speed, and I think I can clear a bit higher than they say too. Speed will vary by load; you can't test top speeds of a chair without gauging how much the passenger weighs. I'm still fairly light, and I get 8 MPH or more out of my chair on an ideal surface. vrooom!

[katilea.wordpress.com]

John has a forum, I posted for advice about FWD but he doesn't like them at all.

Problem I'd have is I can't get a RWD around my house and really want the standing function and recline to rest in. His chairs have neither but they do look cool!

Controlling it was also a big issue for me with progressive Ataxia.

I think you have to think about what you need from your chair.

Kati x

I forgot..

[katilea.wordpress.com]

I forgot to say.. I have decided to keep a scooter for Inca's dog walking and so she can ride on footplate more as she gets older, and try and get funding for the Genie Sit-to-stand chair as an indodor chair as I start to need full support seating all the time.

I saw a Velcro chest strap I'm planning on getting to stop me falling off scooter and the Genie comes with all harnessing etc as it's a standing chair.

You can read my review on it here:
http://katilea.wordpress.com/2010/10/07/genie-review/

Best thing to do is write a list of what YOU need from YOUR chair to help you decide which be best for you. Do you need only indoor places? Indoor/out? Can use standard controllers or may need 'speciality controls' now or in future?
Planning on hurtling around the playing fields with the cat?....lol! etc etc...

Kati x

[jeshyr]

LOL, I know what I need I just can't get it all in one chair of course :/

I have a list etc. and an appointment with the ILC people (and my OT) soon. I don't need to replace that chair yet but I do need to plan for it as the existing chair is 10 years old now. Hopefully by the time it actually needs replacing I'll be organized!!

r

[acelightning]

are you at all interested in the lights and reflectors? (do you need them in order to go tooling around on the streets?) i wish i could help you with some of the work...

*hugs*

[katilea.wordpress.com]

Unfortunately I don't think there is a single chair that will do everything, of course it depends on terrain where you live and where you regularly need to get to!

I was looking at X5 Frontier that has system where can change the middle wheel to either indoor or all-terrain but it's still wider and longer than most chairs -nearly as long as my scooter - so would be no use to me around my bungalow.

So decided to keep scooter for as long as can manage getting on and off it for dog walking and go for a comfort solution for when I'm in one all day.

Does your current chair make a better indoor or outdoor chair? Would it do for back up and around house if you got a new one that met needs for out & about?

KT x

[jeshyr]

I'm really not into lights and reflectors - pity, those are the easiest things to add!!

I have figured out a way I could shave nearly 30cm off the length of my current chair if I was allowed to mess with it. Unfortunately it belongs to the people who funded it so I'm not :(

Cheers,
r

[acelightning]

here in the US, there are certain minimum requirements for lights and suchlike on any vehicle that will be used on public roads. there's someone who lives around here and gets around in a powered chair, and drives it on the road; it's equipped with front (white) and rear (red) reflectors, and a thin whippy "flagpole" bearing a fluorescent-orange warning flag at about the height of a normal car. i don't think he has any lights on it, but i might be wrong. i suspect that the regulations for something like a bicycle apply to powered wheelchairs.

anyway, that's the sort of thing i was thinking about - not lights and reflectors for purely decorative effect ;-)

although i think it would be cool to add electroluminescent trim to your chair ;-D

[jeshyr]

Wheelchairs here aren't allowed to drive on roads (unless there's no footpath). They're "officially" pedestrians (not vehicles) I believe, and so the rules are different to the rules for bikes or the rules for cars.

Also, they come equipped with all the legally required reflectors and lights and stuff - mine even has a red light on the back that only lights up when it's going backwards! You don't notice it unless it's dark though because there's only a few car-type batteries in there keeping it running so there's not much juice.

I'm more for function that form, I guess!

[acelightning]

electroluminescent stuff is a lot of fun to work with, though, and it takes very little power. i made myself a glowing purple tiara, with a battery pack concealed in my hair. (i wish i knew which box it got packed in, the last time i moved!) from the photos of motorcycles that have been decorated with EL "string" and things, it looks as if outlining the frame of a power chair would look very dramatic ;-D

[pauamma]

Hmm. Sweet, tasty embedded software programming. Been a looong while since I last worked on that. But considering the hardware aspects and the problems with testing and debugging crashes (he said "crash"! Har har har!</Butthead>) from over here, I'm not sure I'm in a position to contribute a lot. But if you ever get it to the point where you have an active source code and design docs repo, lemme know.

One suggestion: this may make a good project for a college class on robot design. Do you have any EE dept. nearby that may be interested?

[joeybug]

Hey! I'm finally on DW :D I'm not gonna use it as a journal, more to read other people's coz I'm not too sure about security...if I can work out how to post from LJ to DW, I might cross post if I can get security to my liking, but this has to be the first comment from me in a LONG time!

Miss talking with you! Love ya!

Joey

[jeshyr]

Nice to see you here!

What is your worry about security? You have more options here than on LJ, I can teach you how to do whatever it is you're needing :)

Also you can't post to DW using the LJ posting page but you can do it the other way around and use the DW posting page to post to both DW and LJ, and it does do stuff like preserve security if you want it to. Again, happy to show you how!!

Love the icon photo you have there! Great to hear from you.

Cheers,
r